Katie: Yeah, and I grew up in Rock Springs. I was born in Evanston. Grew up in Rock Springs. Everyone in Wyoming has a reaction when you tell them you're from Rock Springs because it’s like, “Oh…” It has a reputation for being rough around the edges.

Nancy: Like Gillette and the coal mine kind of?

Katie: Yeah, absolutely. A lot of miners, a lot of people that come and don’t stay too long—there for the work.

Nancy: What brought your family to Rock Springs—or you? Like, how did you end up being from Rock Springs?

Katie: That’s a good question. My mom grew up in Arizona, married my dad, who has connections to Pinedale. So they moved to Thayne—Thayne, Star Valley Ranch area—because that’s where my dad’s dad was working at the time. They divorced when I was quite young. My mom moved to Evanston because that’s where my grandma was, and then she moved to Rock Springs because she met my—well, no longer—stepdad. But he was my stepdad for most of my life. He worked in Rock Springs. He was a lineman.

Nancy: I’ve heard these hints and bits about Rock Springs being rough around the edges. I’m not originally from Wyoming, but I consider it my adoptive state. Where I’m from—which, for better or worse, is Texas, which has its own reputation with Wyomingites—we say, “I may not be from here, but I got here as fast as I could.” That’s the way I like to think of it. So I’m curious: what are your thoughts on the “rough around the edges” narrative? Is it fair? Does it erase valuable things? What’s Katie’s opinion?

Katie: I was always just glad that Rock Springs had a Walmart and a mall and a McDonald’s, you know what I mean? I traveled for speech and debate, I traveled for cross country— So if you had a meet in Star Valley, the place you ate was the grocery store—you’d buy a deli sandwich or whatever. So I was always like, What do you mean? We have all of these things. It lined up better with what I was doing at the time.

And it’s really beautiful in Rock Springs. It’s a “type two beauty,” for sure. But if you like being outside, there are lots of trails. I’m a runner, so running was always big.

But I also didn’t realize how a place could be different from Rock Springs until I left it. So I think I was in the “rough around the edges.”

Nancy: Yeah. And what does that even mean?

Katie: I don’t know. I think a lot of it has to do with class—like, what kind of access to arts and fiction and experiences did you have? And I think it has to do with, for sure, drug use. What are the activities to do in a place? What do we do? And when those activities are few or limited—when people don’t have lasting connections to the place—I think that contributes to the narrative.

Nancy: You made me think—okay, I’ve spent only a tiny bit of time in Rock Springs, but in Laramie, people talk a lot about trails, Turtle Rock, biking, skiing. If you’re trying not to fall into unhealthy cultures—like drug use, which is so related to mental health and feelings of belonging and estrangement—there’s beautiful outdoors. But if you’re not an outdoors person, what’s there?

So I’m thinking about those edges. If we’re trying to be good citizens of the Shepard Symposium, we’re thinking about common ground. Common ground has rough edges.

So yeah, you go to the mall, go to school, see your friends and family. But it sounds to me like the narrative of Rock Springs is more complicated. That "rough edges" thing—it might be because people have a hard time.

Katie: Yeah. I guess people have a hard time, right? Whatever resource or situation they’re in, and then you're in this place that has all of these limitations. And it’s like, What do I do to take care of myself within these limitations?

Nancy: Which can sometimes be self-medicating, which can get dangerous, right?

Katie: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nancy: So what’s your relationship been to Rock Springs now? How long have you been in Laramie?

Katie: Well, I did my undergrad here. I did one year of teaching here—I taught at Spring Creek. Then I left for a while, went to grad school, and came back. This is the beginning of my third year being back here.

Nancy: Where’d you go to grad school?

Katie: University of Idaho.

Nancy: Oh, nice. So as you've continued to educate yourself and gain life experiences, has your relationship to Rock Springs evolved? Shifted? Changed? Does it feel like a stable relationship?

Katie: It’s tricky. My family moved away when I was a senior—or maybe that’s when they decided to. When I was a freshman in college, my mom moved to Star Valley with my stepdad. So when my home was no longer there, it was harder to go back.

But I had strong relationships with other community members—including my friends. As those relationships faded, I went back less and less.

I think I’ve always been somewhat defensive about Rock Springs. Because I grew up there. I found it beautiful in its own way. Like, I can call it “meth,” but you probably can’t.

I feel pretty tenderly toward it. When you grow up, move away, live in a city—I did that. And actually, I didn’t like it that much. So I have some appreciation for it.

My family situation was always complicated and hard. So in some ways, I associate Rock Springs with my mom’s second marriage—and all the ways that was difficult.

But I also think of it as... because no one in my family is there anymore, it’s kind of uniquely mine. My sister doesn’t visit. My mom doesn’t visit. I’m the only one who really has a continuing relationship with it.

Nancy: That’s interesting. It’s like you remade your own groundedness there—on your own terms. That’s cool.

Are there any other comments or stories you’re inspired to share?

Katie: That’s a good question. I think something that’s relevant—because this is the Shepard Symposium, and we live in a post-DEI-UW world right now—is that when I came out to my mom in high school, she told me I could either vote and keep being gay, or continue to live at her house.

So... my childhood and my connection to that place has always been characterized by that story.

And yeah, I feel like enough time has passed and enough healing has happened that my mom and I are fine. I’m out. I have a partner. My mom loves my partner. It’s beautiful.

But I guess—it wasn’t always.

Note: The transcript above has been condensed from its original audio recording to improve the flow and readability of the story.